## [Episode 350 – Take a look, it’s in a book, or in a Microsoft Learn exam](/content/episode350/index.html)

by [Scott](/content/author/scottmsclouditpro/ "Posts by Scott"/index.html) \| Sep 7, 2023 \| [Podcast](/content/category/podcast/index.html)

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Welcome to episode 350 of the
Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast recorded live on August 25th, 2023. This is a show about Microsoft 365 and
Azure from the perspective of it pros and end users where we discuss a topic where
recent news and how it relates to you teams, channels. It's one of Ben's recent frustrations
with some of the feature ambiguity between the various types of channels available. Ben and Scott also talk about the
new open book policy or Microsoft learn policy for taking
Microsoft exams. Finally, they wrap up with a new feature
release near and dear to Scott's heart, giving you a simplified experience for
creating and managing C D N endpoints for Azure storage using Azure front door. We need to have a segment,
Scott. So on our podcast, we should start a Ben's weekly rant. Stop. It's your show. Like
you can do whatever you want. Like I joined to provide
color commentary so. Or to get me all riled. Up, you wanna segment like I'll put some
sound effects in there or something and we'll be good of. Ben's weekly rant. Do you know
what Ben's weekly rant is today? I don't know why I didn't
realize this before. Ben's weekly rant today. I feel like I should have known about
this or I would've encountered this before. My weekly rant today has to do
with an overview of teams and channels and Microsoft
teams. And to be fair, I actually have lots of rants about
teams and channels and Microsoft teams and the way this has been implemented. But I had an interesting one that I hit
today and I honestly don't know why I haven't hit this one before or
why I didn't realize this before. Microsoft is all about
shared channels for like private channels. 'cause you
can do your own security on it. It creates its own SharePoint site,
blah blah blah, blah blah, blah. And did you like all the blah blah
blah blah blahs And I loved it. I work with some contractors
like I have a few contractors, different companies. I partner with all of that and we have
started using shared channels because in that case a shared channel is nice. We set up all the A a D stuff
and I share my channel with them so that they don't have to do all
the tenant jumping stuff in order to get to content for a client that we
might be working on together. Well, today I had such a right. Makes sense. Very reasonable. That's what I thought. So today I had such a channel and all
of a sudden I had a file and I'm like, sweet, we're done with this.
Now I can share it to a client. It doesn't work because if you go look
at the channel feature comparison, shared channels work great for external
participant B two B direct connect, all of that. But guess what cannot be
added to a shared channel. A guest user. . You like wanna have
your cake and eat it too. So.Right, but if my client is not set up for B two
B direct connect and I don't wanna add with him and I wanna share a file with
him that we've been working on in teams, I can't do it anymore. Now I have to go put it
somewhere else or go back to, let me email you this
file or something else. And I just get irritated by that today
because I wanted to have shared channels for when I work with contractors
where it's all hunky dory. But I also wanted to be able to add a
guest to it so that I could share a file with a guest, which
seemed very logical to me. And they have this overview
of this channel feature comparison table. And I think it just even
reiterated to me how I would say discombobulated, the whole channel infrastructure
and setup really is when it comes to teams. And I feel like you should
not have to think this much or put this much planning into
what type of channel do I want? Like I should have, apps is another
one. This is my other pet peeve. Like I can't add apps, I can't add planner if I wanna do task
management in a private channel or a shared channel and I wanna use planner,
I don't use planner for this reason, but if I did I should be able to add it. Like the differentiation between standard
private and shared should absolutely be a security construct, not a, we have a list of 15 things and
depending on what you wanna do before, you won't go create a channel. You should go through this list of 15
things and figure out exactly what you wanna do and if for some reason what you
wanna do doesn't work out. Tough luck. .Well I mean arguably sharing with an
external guest is a security thing. Yes. Okay. So it, yes, it's a security thing but it's also
not like shared channels should implement B two B stuff but I don't feel
like it should take away other stuff. So I guess. It's hard. Yeah, it's it's,
it's a balance thing like, and there's weird stuff too. The the one I've run into with shared
channels and I guess I always just thought it was like a gap and I didn't know why
I didn't know it was documented was the analytics thing. Like if you ever
play around with like team analytics, like I have a thing where we have a
internal team where you, you know, we let like our field and technical
communities come in and one of the KPIs we have is like, Hey, how much growth
over time can we drive in this team? Like how many posts can we drive? What
are the types of engagement we get? How many members do we add month over
month and interactions and things like that. And like it's a nightmare to, to get the data and put it together and
I have to do a bunch of it manually and it's painful and it and it hurts.
TE teams are just weird in, in general. I ran into another
interesting one,  in SharePoint.So I, I was working on a project with
someone and they had created some files like think like word
documents, PowerPoints, things like that over in their
OneDrive. Totally valid thing, right? Like you create it in your OneDrive, like that's quite often
like where documents start
for me and then over time I take them and I either physically
move them or I do the save as a copy thing and I save it into another
site and then I just delete the one in my OneDrive so I don't have two copies of
it and multiple things running around. So I'm working on this
project with this person, I say Hey can you come and you know, I see you have these
files in your OneDrive, like they're pretty much canonical at
this point. Like we've iterated on them, they're done, can you move them over to
the team site so they're ready to go. Like I have a team site with a
channel and that channel has you know, a folder inside the SharePoint
site, things like that. So it's just go to this
place in SharePoint and
just do like bring the thing over there. And the way that they thought
to do that was to you know, do the thing where you could just add a
new link in the SharePoint site and it creates URL file and they just made that
point to the stuff in their OneDrive and I was like, I can see how functionally you thought
that was the same thing but they're very different things. .I had never seen somebody use URLs
in a SharePoint site that way. And it was just, it was one of those moments where it's
like oh users are gonna do weird things that you just can't account for. . Yeah they really do.I know and I think with
all of this it's hard. Like I also feel for Microsoft
in that respect, right? They created teams that created channels. Arguably they probably had no idea
they were gonna do shared channels and private channels when they first stood
up teams and then they had to try to shoehorn these in. But I think that's where a lot of the
frustration comes up is that as you add on these features, and we've talked about it before where
that initial dependency on groups for security for planner, even when it used to be there for power
BI workspaces kind of backed Microsoft into a corner with some of this stuff. And it really is how do
you get around some of the, it's technical debt, how do you get around some
of that technical debt from
when you first rolled it out to be able to implement these in a
way that to be able to implement these in a way that they work
and work for everybody. And I've seen like the planner one I is
one I've seen a lot and Microsoft said like a year, year and a half ago. Yeah
we're aware of it, we're working on it, we wanna get planner everything. But a
year, year and a half is a long time. Personally I've gone out and
found workarounds. Like I said, I don't use planner, I use Jira because Jira gives
me a lot more flexibility to be able to actually pin tasks to any type
of channel no matter which one it is because I got tired of waiting
for Microsoft to do, it continues. To be a tough space to work in. You're
moving at the speed of the cloud. Yeah, so there's my rant but I would also say
for those of you that are looking at all these channels, like go look at this channel feature
comparison before you stand them up. And unfortunately again to the dismay
of end users don't even know to look at this, right? Like what happens if you have an end
user go spin up a certain type of channel and put a bunch of content in it and
build out a SharePoint site and six months down the road they need to do something
that you can't do in that specific type of channel. You can't convert it like at that
point in time you're doing a channel to channel migration. I don't
even have any good advice. Like do you go tell people to look
at this overview before they spin up channels? I mean there's some stuff as you as an
admin that you can do with sensitivity labels or setting some standardization,
turning certain channels off. But it's kind of a tough spot for
end users to be in to have to know some of these requirements to pick the
right channel if you let users do that in your environment. Yeah, end. Users are never gonna come over
to this documentation. Yeah. Ever. It's like I'm gonna make the argument it
doesn't happen if it's not on support, do microsoft.com. They never find it and
you know the s e O just isn't there for things like this versus
like support Microsoft and even then, like you're still asking the
user to take that extra step. I know I'm not gonna do it .No. Well and again it's not something I spent
a ton of time looking at and thinking about until I hit this
one so I don't know. But. Hey now you know for next time I. Do. And speaking of documentation, Scott, do you know who can start going
to this documentation now in learn.microsoft.com?
There is a new subgroup, a new group of people that can
start visiting said documentation. . I see what you did
there. Do you like that?That was actually one of your Yeah, yeah. It would've been a good transition if
I hadn't called out that I saw what you did there so I, I ruined it for you
but it was one of your better ones. That's okay. Yeah. So we've talked a bunch about
certifications on the show in the past and I dunno about you like they're
near and dear to my heart, right? Like I used to write
books for these things. I certainly trained a bunch of people on
'em like it was my bread and butter for a little bit while a little
while and I paid the bills. But the role-based
certifications for Microsoft exams, you know those things where you
go to a Pearson View site or you know you do 'em at home and you sit
there with your camera on and you got the moderator and they're like, show me what your desk looks like and
you don't have any like paperclips or post-it notes on your desk
do you? And then you know, your kid walks in behind you and
you're disqualified from your test. Those exams are now
moving to a model where you will have access
to learn@microsoft.com. So effectively the docs for the
services that you're dealing with, like back to the example that we just
had here where you were looking at a comparison of features in teams like
that comparison was sitting over and learn@microsoft.com. So that stuff is now going to
be available for test takers directly through the testing
interface. So you know, if you've ever sat down
for a Microsoft exam, you know like your moderator comes over, they spin you up into
this environment and it's, it's locked down and like all you're in
is the exam environment now they'll have links in there where you can optionally
open kind of a split view with a browser tab and go over to learn and search through learn and potentially get
to the information that you need to to which I think is good uh,
for a whole bunch of reasons. One is Microsoft exams are notorious for testing you on the esoteric things
that frankly you don't do day to day. It's like oh I'm going to show you a
multiple choice answer and each one of those answers has a different
set of parameters that all
look very much the same on a PowerShell commandlet.
You're like I don't know, I haven't touched that PowerShell
commandlet in two months and even if I had touched it I was gonna do
GI help or something else
on it to work my way through it and get it to where it needs to be. So now you can potentially
leverage the docks uh, to go ahead and look that up.
So I think that's all good. I think there's still limitations here. So one thing that I think I
would struggle with personally is I don't like Microsoft search. Like I don't think binging search is
a great product and it doesn't return results with the fidelity that I want
that I'm used to in other search engines like Google. Like I'm a, I'm a Google user and I'm used to
queries syntax and Google and the way it returns things for me. So you're not allowed to go to Google
and search and use a random blog, you're stuck to learn.microsoft.com
and kind of the the builtin binging search that comes along with that. The other thing that I think is going to
potentially be painful and trip people up is the certifications don't get updated as often as the documentation is .So there is a very real
possibility that, again, I'll take that example of you're sitting
on a multiple choice question and you've got four answers and they all
have different PowerShell parameters that actually two of those
answers could be right, but it turns out there's only one answer
that's right for the test because maybe the parameters on that commandlet
changed over time and the ones that are surfaced in the dock
are what's right today. But the real answer is what was right
six months ago when this test was written thing. I think that's gonna be
a struggle for folks as well. I'm a big fan of this 'cause I've had the
same thing to your point I like and I, I think this is gonna hit a lot more, at least for me when it comes to
like PowerShell scripts or CLIs or like even some of the intricacies
of maybe how things are named because that is what I do tend to
rely a lot on the docs for I am also a very much a tab complete type
person , I remember .100%. Just enough so that tab complete
works but I don't know the whole commandlet name and to come
into a test and remember it. So I see a lot of advantages to it here. But I also agree or I also think
that you're not going to be able to rely on this to just go in and pass
the exam without knowing your stuff for a couple reasons. One, there is still absolutely the
exact same amount of time. So if you were running into time limits
before when you took these and now you're going to go try to look up all this stuff
and learn to validate your answers, you're going to run out of time. And I had a professor that did
this to us even in college, he would say okay this test open book
everything. I don't care what you take in, you can take in all the
textbooks, all your notes, you can take in anything you want to but
if you don't know it you're not gonna have enough time to pass it. And I wonder if even as some
of these tests get updated, if Microsoft will start taking some of
those approaches with these two where sometimes open book is nice or open learn
in this case because you can go look it up but are they gonna start writing
questions where it's not quite so black and white? And again I still think
you're gonna have to know your stuff. There's also gonna be a temptation to
go in I think and validate that you're answering it properly which could
cause you to run out of time. If you are in there and you're
like, oh I don't really know, let me go look this up and then like 20
minutes later you find the answer that kills a lot of time in a test. So I still say you're gonna have to
know your stuff but I like that it's available because that's how
a lot of people work today. Most people don't have power show command. Let's memorized this chart
of team functionality or some of the skews on what's
included in what licensing. I would venture to guess 95% of the
people that do that on a day-to-day basis don't memorize it,
they just know where it is. But you're also gonna have to get used
to being able to just search using learn and not search using your favorite search
engine of choice or relying on like the community stuff. Like
it's only gonna be the docs, it's not gonna be some of the forums and
tech community stuff that's under learn either. 'cause there are some like blog posts
and stuff that also all fall under that U R L. So it's not YouTube videos,
it's also not GitHub repos, which is interesting depending on
the examination that you're taking. So one place I would say like having
access to GitHub could be helpful would be some of the developer exams
because lots of the samples for development are
actually over on GitHub. Like the high fidelity samples that
are gonna maybe get you to that answer sometimes. So T L D R is, you do have access to this but just
because you have access to this, I don't having not sat and taken one in
the new format yet 'cause like this was just released, I don't think
this makes things any easier. I think it potentially takes away some
of the jitters and anxiety that might come with test taking but it
doesn't take away from the need to still understand the
material, the core concepts. Like you're still gonna have to
study and do all of those things. 'cause even having access to learn means
you still need to go know where and learn to look like am I
looking up a conceptual thing? Am I looking up a how to thing?
Is it more a referential thing? And you're gonna need to know that.
Yeah am I looking at the service docs? Do I need to go look at the calf or
the WAF or some other weird place? Like all all that stuff
kind of comes into play. You're also not gonna have access to other
learn properties like Microsoft q and a and all that stuff as
well. So uh, you know, just keep it in the back of
your head. It'll be interesting. I think it is something that
potentially eases things out. I do wonder how the
proctors are gonna take it. I don't know. Have you ever done one of the online
Pearson exams like back when they shut 'em all down for covid and everything. Like sit at home and do it? Yes. For like not a renewal
but a brand new. Right, but. Actually doing, no I have never done it. Partly because I have way too much
noise in my house and I've heard horror stories about proctors just like shutting
it down as soon as they hear noise with all the family and kids
I have home all day and the amount of tech in my office, like I literally have to go like sit on
our bed in our bedroom or something to do it and even then kids can charging it. So I have never tried
to do an at-home one. So that's a consideration
is like background noise. You have to be in a quiet place.
Your desk has to be cleaned off. Like they ask to, hey can you like move your webcam
down and show a picture of your desk. Like for me I have like a
mirrorless camera up here. I have to unmount it and like
wave it around  uh,or I just go grab like a U S B webcam
from the kids so you know I can pick it up and make it easier. Yeah. But the other thing that they watch
for is like they're watching your body movement and your eyes
and things like that. And if you're looking to the side too
much, if your eyes are flittering around, like they think you're getting into
the mode where you're cheating, right? You could have somebody who wasn't there
before and now they're in the room and they walked up behind you
and they're over there. So I wonder how they're gonna do things
like that. Like many of us are on, you know like multi-monitor setups, like I've got a 32 inch
monitor in front of me. So for me to look in like one
corner to the other corner, like my head is going all the
way back and forth, right? Right. And I could be looking at something else
even though there's only a wall behind me and there's really
nobody or nothing there. So I wonder how they're
treat that piece of it. 'cause it sounds like they're still
gonna have the online moderators and, and that makes sense to me for
for the at-home exams at least. So we'll we'll see how
some of this stuff goes. But all in all I think
it's good stuff. Yeah, it does only apply to the
role-based exams and not the fundamentals. Yes, the role-based
and the specialty exams. So things like Azure
administrator, Azure developer, M 365 administrator, that stuff, those are all role-based exams and then
you've got like networking, a V s exams, A V D, things like that
are all specialties. Yeah, to your point too, I think even if you're reading on
learn right your eyes tend to flitter, you tend to just get
different facial expressions. If you're reading learn much
like you would be cheating. So that will be interesting. I think I was thinking through
this as you were talking to, I think my strategy and what I
would recommend people do I think is go take the exam just like you
normally would. Like don't look up, learn as you're going through it,
go through answer the questions. The ones and I do this already,
the ones you're not sure of, I mark 'em to go back and review later.
So I think I'd go do the whole exam, mark the ones that I wanna review later
and then come back and if there's time hit the ones I wanna
review and look up, use, learn to see if I can help solidify those
answers on the ones I wasn't sure of the ones I wanted to review versus trying
to pull up learn as I'm going through each one of 'em. We'll. See, I think it'll work better at
home for most folks in this model. Like the other thing that I uh, comes to mind is most
Pearson locations are pretty trashy . Like they're in
random places sometimes, right?Like hey go to this weird office building
in the back of this office park and  the door is locked and and it's
like a skeevy place and you're like, uh,I don't know about this. Or they're in like college labs or
things like that where there's a bunch of other tests and tests taking going on. Like I wonder about the infrastructure
sometimes I think it was easier if it was just a shutdown down componentized thing. But now if you need to get out to the
internet you're dependent on internet access the whole time. Like oh how
quick can I browse through this? And and what's that look like? The machines you take exams on at appears
and Exam Center are all like crappy thin clients. They're not like beefy
machines like you have at home. So they run the exam software slow enough
that I bet they don't run the internet any faster. Like when it comes to rendering in
a web browser or things like that. I might have to go try and sit
one just to see how it goes. Go figure one out Scott. We
can compete on an exam. Indie, Do you feel overwhelmed by trying to
manage your Office 365 environment? Are you facing unexpected issues that
disrupt your company's productivity? Intelligent is here to help much like you
take your car to the mechanic that has specialized knowledge on how to best keep
your car running Intelligent helps you with your Microsoft Cloud environment
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Cloud technology, visit them at intelligent.com/podcast. That's I N T E L L I G I N k.com/podcast for more information
or to schedule a 30 minute call to get started with them today. Remember intelligent focuses on the
Microsoft cloud so you can focus on your business. What else did we have? Did you have We had a couple other
kind of interesting announcements. Oh I've got YouTube videos playing in
my tabs now as I click through 'em.  did you want to
talk about one of yourannouncements this week
around storage accounts? Yeah. We can talk about one of mine. So something that I've been
working on with some of my partners over in Azure
networking is improving the experience for our C D N customers. I don't know if you've paid attention
to the C D N space at Microsoft and kind of what's been going on there, but there's a couple different
resource providers for CDNs. Like there's Microsoft CDN and
then within Microsoft C D N there's classic C D N, there's
Akamai, there's Verizon. And at one point there was an offering
called Front Door Classic. Uh, well it was called Front Door
at the time Azure Front Door. And then that became Azure Front Door
Classic and now there's Azure Front Door Standard and Premium. And we never really kept up with
all that stuff on the storage side. Like many of our customers have ended
up in a space where you know, they're, they're potentially relegated if they
want to configure things through the Azure portal to leveraging like the classic C D N Akamai C dmm which is
gonna be deprecated and and
has been announced as gonna be retired in the next couple of years. So I want to like we set out on this
kind of journey to see if we can improve the process for customers
there and by improve it, not just hey let's make sure we're
modernizing and giving customers access to like the right tool for the right job
but also simplify the process. Like it, it was kind of an interesting thing for
me as product manager to sit down and look at an existing experience that like
I had nothing to do with originally in in storage and go like, oh yeah, this is kind of like not the
greatest experience for customers. It's kind of complicated. It takes in excess of 20 clicks to
create a C D N endpoint .Which is kind of crazy because really
all you're doing is using the portal as like an arm template expression generator
like we've talked about in the past. Like how do you simplify that,
how do you make it quicker? So we cut it down to just a handful
of clicks and you can deploy and manage your endpoints
for a storage account. So for Blob as origin or for
a static website as origin or both if you want to, you can basically go into the portal on
a storage account and there's a blade in there that's now called Front Door
and C D N and you just pump in a name for your front door profile and
you choose a couple options like do you want a web application firewall and and
some other security constructs like do you wanna enable edge
caching and things like that. And you just click the
button and it deploys and it just kind of goes, which is super
slick. Like it's all good now. Now we have a unified management
experience where you can come in. So if you're a customer who's managing uh, blob is origin under Azure front
Door standard or premium or you're using any of the classic C D
N constructs like Microsoft C D N, classic Akamai, Verizon, things like that, you have a one-stop management
experience from within the storage blades. And if you want to like
we don't do C D N as a a hobo service or a hosted on behalf
of thing like you have a full access to front door and the
associated C D M profile. So if you want to do other things
in front door like okay great, I created my C D N endpoint and I spun
things up but now I need to know go customize that. I wanna bind a custom
domain, I wanna do custom ss, SS l, all that kind of stuff. I want to go look deeper at the features
in the web application firewall and customize the the rule sets, the
core rule sets associated with that. You have full access to that because the
front door resource sets provisioned is something that lives in your
subscriptions, you manage, you maintain, like we give you kind of the best
experience for what you need as a storage customer in the storage side. But if you need more than
that you just hop over to the, you hop over to the other side and
go to your front door resource and you can manage everything
through there as well. So I think it's really like a best of
both worlds kinds of things And now that there's more native integration from
our end from the storage side with Front Door, I tend to look at that as a little bit
of like forward looking thing as well. Like what other kind of integrations can
we build in to make things better for storage customers. Like you know
I mentioned like custom domains, you can do custom domains in storage
today but you can't do custom SS s L on a storage account. But if you front
your storage account with front door, front door does both custom
domains and custom S S L. So like is there a better
native integrated experience
that we could have there to guide customers in like hey if you
need a custom domain without SS S L go this way. If you need a custom domain and SS SS
l go over here to this other service 'cause it's the best thing and by the
way it's natively integrated. Got. It. So this isn't necessarily adding any new
SKUs or any new pricing or any of this. This is just taking those existing
Azure front door standard and premium SKUs and creating some tighter
integration between that and your blob storage. And our old C D N experience
didn't even have front door in it. So if you were just coming over to
storage you wouldn't have known that front door even existed or was an option for
you unless you actually went out and did it from the front door side and came over. So now you kind of have this holistic
view where you can start in front door and come to storage or you can start in
storage and get to front door and have all that functionality between both stacks. Got it. I am gonna add this to my
list and actually play with
that 'cause I'm actually working on redoing my website right
now as a static site hosted in Azure blob storage. So I might have to go throw Azure
front door in front of it and then maybe go ask you for some
Azure credits. .Front door's. Interesting. It's, it's, I had kind of lost sight of it being
in storage Uhhuh ,it was good to get back up to speed on
it like the last time I looked at front door, you know they had maybe like 150
pops and they didn't have as much of the rich WAF functionality and some of
the other things like it's actually kind of come a long way. They've
got like 192 plus pops today. They've got way better controls
around caching and cash purge. Having a single front door endpoint
with like multiple blob storage origins is super easy. Now we also took the time to make
sure that it works with kind of all storage account types. So you know we have some like new
endpoint types with these Azure D N S zone accounts in in preview today. And even though that stuff's in
preview like hey we baked it into this experience and it's ready to go. So I'm very happy with the way it turned
out and as you called out in the chat like hey look at the
author of that blog post. I've been in Azure storage for like three
years and I'm kind of happy like this is the first feature that like I got
to not only support and like help engineering build out but I own it and
launch it and it's the area of storage that I own. So that's kind of fun too. Congratulations on that achievement. It's kind of fun seeing your name at
the top of all that but can you get Azure front door pricing cheaper? Like if I go do this I'm gonna have to
make sure I stay on the standard plan because there's no way I'm
paying for the premium one.  stick around and watch the space
and we'll see what I can do. You'll.See what you can do. Alright there's your next i I sent you
after your next project because I mean the standard one isn't bad right?
$35 a month for something like this. But yeah that premium one at 330 a month, that starts to get a little steep
for my lowly little website. Hopefully I don't need anything in there. I think most folks like if you're just
starting out you don't need premium to be brutally honest. Like the
things that it adds in, you know is there really
value add for there? Like do you need a web
application firewall on day one? Do you need additional DDoS
protection between like what Azure, beyond what like Azure Standard DDoS?
Like probably not, right? Right. Especially if you're talking about
like a blog or even like a simple like company website like like your
website intelligent.com like likely doesn't need a bunch of those features. Like those features are there for the
folks that need them and Standard does do a whole. Lot Yeah about production. Like
I wouldn't need private link, I wouldn't need threat intelligence,
security analytics, you know, especially if you're hosting
a static website, right? Like there's not a whole lot that
it's public already so youreally don't have a lot of threat
detection you need or security stuff. It's just a bunch of H T M L files. Maybe you care about somebody getting in
there and somehow changing your files. But I would agree like you look through
the premium features and hosting a static website blob storage, you can probably get away with most of
'em with just that standard skew of front door and even. Like web static websites
in storage are super basic things where I would
say like for most folks, like you know you should start probably
unless you know you really need it. Like you should start
with Front Door Standard. I go the other way with
things like static websites, like you probably think you
wanna start simple, but uh, from what I do with static websites
and what I see many customers doing, frankly storage isn't always the
right tool for them. I I get, I'm supposed to sell more storage
but I, I would almost,I would caution you and potentially guide
you towards other services like Azure static web apps where it has rich
native integrations with GitHub actions and all those kinds of
things out of the box, right? I think about like most static websites
are actually statically generated based on other content like things like
Hugo and Ghost and all that. Yeah. So you have to run through like a build
process if you wanna do that with a static web app just on storage. There's a ton of bootstrapping
that you need to go do on your own. And if you just started out with back to
that conversation about the right tool for the right job, if you just started
out with Azure static web apps, you would potentially be in a better
place 'cause it has all those integrations natively from day one and you don't
have to do all that heavy lifting. We. Should go back and talk about those
'cause those have changed quite a bit too. I know like Blob storage
used to be the way. Blob storage used to be the way, that's another area in
storage that I look after. But now it's those Azure
static web apps have gotten. I don't know that it's the way
for everybody these days anymore. I'm very mindful of like in Azure we
have multiple services that do the same kinds of things and just from what I
see customers doing and from what I know that you probably do like you're probably
like a Hugo or a ghost person kind of thing versus a I'm gonna open VS code
and just actually manually write some H D M L here. I am actually using, now I'm
completely blanking on the name of it. I'm not using either of those. I am using, oh my Edge just crashed on me.
, we'll just call it a day. Yes.It to do too much. Why. Am I blanking on the name of it right
now? But yes, I looked at a bunch of 'em. I'm not using Hugo or Ghost. It's a newer one that came on the scene
that I actually like better 'cause it's not it, it just made sense to me. That's the thing with the static
website generators, right? You just pick one that
makes the most sense. But. I think the key word
there is generator. Yes, there's static web apps and then
there's statically generated websites. I absolutely use a generator. I think that's the distinction. So once
you start to get generator in the name, like you might wanna be
looking at something else. Yeah. So you go Pelican uh, it's in
here. We'll come back with that one. I'll throw it in the chat, we'll
throw it in the show notes. But I actually do have a
meeting at four o'clock so I should probably call it
a day with that. All right. Well as always thank you and we'll
chat again next week. Alright. Thanks Scott. We'll talk
to you next week. Yep. Thanks Ben. If you enjoyed the podcast, go leave
us a five star rating in iTunes. It helps to get the word out so more
IT pros can learn about Office 365 and Azure. If you have any questions you want us
to address on the show or feedback about the show, feel free to reach out via
our website, Twitter, or Facebook. Thanks again for listening
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In Episode 350, Ben and Scott talk about some of the ambiguity in features between several types of Teams channels, a new model that includes access to Microsoft Learn for those taking role-based Microsoft certification exams, and a simplified experience for creating and managing CDN endpoints using Azure Front Door for Azure Storage customers.

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## [Episode 325 – How do I migrate from SharePoint Online to Azure blob storage?](/content/episode325/index.html)

by [Scott](/content/author/scottmsclouditpro/ "Posts by Scott"/index.html) \| Mar 16, 2023 \| [Podcast](/content/category/podcast/index.html)

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Welcome to episode 325
of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast recorded
live on March 10th, 2023. This is a show about Microsoft 365 and
Azure from the perspective of it pros and end users where we discuss a topic or
recent news and how it relates to you. Microsoft Loop is finally coming
in public preview later this month. So naturally, Ben and Scott share some
of their experiences with
Loop and in particular loop components to date as well
as a few oddities that
they've run across using Loop components. From there, they move into an interesting scenario
they recently encountered around moving a hundred plus terabytes of data out of
SharePoint and into Azure blob storage and some of the challenges that one
might encounter in such a scenario. I have a question, Scott. When can
I start playing with Loop ?I don't know. Off the top I can say
that Loop is a confounding product to me. The more you
make me interact with it, the more confused I get by it. So example, like real practical example, the other day we were recording the
stream for YouTube and we're putting that together. And normally when we do the YouTube
streams we go back and forth inside of just teams chat with, with
random ideas and kind of, you know, status if we see somebody's
dropped out or you know, their video froze or something like that. And there was this need to put in
just a bulleted list for things. And it just so happened that in
the tendency that you and I do, teams in like Loop is all lit up
and ready to go. So as a, you know, great smart ass, I went in and said, Ooh, rather than creating some rich text here, I'm gonna create a loop component
cuz it's gonna be great. So the scenario is you
and I are in a teams chat, we're in the same exact teams chat.
We both have permission to the chat, we're like in a live
meeting, right? We're, we're going through and
we're doing it. I wanna. Put this on top of it. We're in, we're
logged into the same tenant too. Yes. Like we're both using
IDs in the same tenant. This isn't external guest user or uh, I invited an external user to the meeting. This is you and I logged into teams into
the same tenant in a chat in a meeting. Yep. So I went two of us in a
chat in a scheduled meeting. This isn't even like a one-off
teams chat or anything like that. I don't know if that would make
a difference, but just to like, this is a fairly structured thing and, and kind of a common
workflow I would think. So we're in the chat and I
create a loop component which is just rich text and it's got a couple
bullet points in it and I write up the text that I'm gonna put in there and
I hit send the send button in Teams first problem. The loop component does not render for
you at all and you can't even see it rendering there. You get basically a link to click
on and go out and view it online at which point you get
an access denied message. So you have to request permissions
to the loop component that I just sent to you in that teams chat, which in and of itself I'm just
gonna say like that is a horrible experience. Like yeah, teams should know that you and I are
chatting with each other and that I explicitly created that. I didn't send you a preexisting
loop component so it
wasn't like I was sharing a document or a random link that you,
you shouldn't have had access to. It's like I created this loop
component as a part of this chat. So you had to go open up, you know, the web view of my
OneDrive request access. I had to go and know where to go in
my OneDrive to respond to that access request or wait for the email to come
through from SharePoint that says, oh you know Ben requested access
to your thing. I give you access. I have to tell you in real time, mind you, this is like minutes later as we've been
dancing around and trying to figure out what's going on here, I have to tell you that I gave you
access to that component. And even then, because teams is relatively static when
it comes to chat and things like that, it's not like auto refreshing in the
background for messages that were previously sent. Then you have to click out of the
chat in the meeting and come back in, which I'm gonna argue doesn't really
work like it works if you're somebody who always chats outside of your team window. Like you and I are in a meeting right
now and we're doing video back and forth. So I tend to chat out
of the same meeting, uh, the same window that the video's in and
the only way to refresh that would be to leave the meeting  and then
come back like what a horriblebroken, awkward experience. Like it really makes me question if
the people who want us to use loop components have ever tried
to use them themselves. This is a little odd to me. So I have seen this done and
I thought I had done this successfully in the past and I've
seen people do this successfully in the past where they've all been in
a meeting or in a chat and they've gone and added a loop component and
everybody's been able to access this. So I'm also a little curious is, is this, do I have a setting in my tenant that
I missed? Is this a timing thing? Is this like why is it doing this?
Because I have, in all fairness, I have seen this work, but to your point, it shouldn't be this complicated
is to why it doesn't work. Like. I'm gonna argue if there's a setting in
your tendency that you need to set to make that work, it shouldn't, again, that should not even be a
consideration if there's something out there that you need to go ahead
and crank on a knob like that. Sorry, like that's just a, a non-starter And I might be a little
salty about it cuz we've been doing like planning and a bunch of like product wor
work this week and I've been spending a lot of time with  customers and
thinking about customer asks and thingslike this. This is just, I, it's
one of those ones where I go, did anybody ever try this? I wonder, I just tested
this. So I put a link in, I put a screenshot in the discord of
what this looks like and it showed a loop list in draft and it gives
me like a message at the top. Some recipients won't be able to view
or edit this and this was in a chat with me and someone else in my tenant. I didn't
actually send this one to you Scott, it was with somebody else. And I waited a little bit and I finally
clicked send and then I got a little button that said refresh. And now that
I refreshed it and I look at access, it looks like they have
access. I'm speculating. I wonder if there's a timing thing
because it did just work for me, but it was not as quick as
you and I did it before, like it was seconds while you were
talking where I started it up and maybe waited 20, 30 sec 20 or 30 seconds
or so and it did work. Like is it just slow in going
in and granting access to it? Where had we taken longer?
Again, to your point, I would argue it should probably
be quicker and a little bit more straightforward of ex
explaining why it didn't work, but it did just work for
me. But it was slow. We. Waited what like minutes the other day
cuz we did a whole big dance back and forth of going out to OneDrive
and you requesting permissions. So I'm gonna put on my hey I
ideation hat thing, right? Yeah, like how, how should that work? So your argument that it might take a
little bit for permissions to propagate, you should tell me that in the client. Like you shouldn't even
display the component, put a spinner over for it or something
and say like working on it and you need to wait like asynchronously until
the other end gives an act and says, Hey, all the permissions have
propagated and we're ready to go. If there's some type of weird asynchronous
flow that's going on where like when you click a send button, it's creating the loop component and
then you're waiting on another async call to do the permissions
later. Uhhuh .Like there could be a
weird timing issue there. Like don't make that an asynchronous
call, make that a synchronous thing. Create loop component set
permissions display, right? Like and then display block. Yeah,
just block the display of it.  don't make me have
the cognitive load andthe overhead to think about
that. Especially in a world, uh, where you and I are in the same
exact tenancy, same a d tenant, same set of permissions, like
all the, like all those things. You're not logged into that
tenant right now, are you? Cuz I can't even send you
one in the call we're in now. Probably not. I. Wanna go back and try this again anyways. We can go play with it more. But
I think yes, it was one of my, that's only like the second or third
time I've interacted with Loop and it has been a showstopper
frustrating experience each and every time I've done it
that it makes me question sanity as a user, which isn't a good place
for any product to be. Yes. I would agree with that, but Scott, you can play with it more now
because we've had loop components. But I did see that the Microsoft Loop app, so now we have a standalone web app
for Loop is coming to public preview this month is the current plan. It's
gonna start rolling out over this month. Go check your message center because
there's a whole bunch of stuff in here. I actually saw it on Twitter before
I saw it in the message center and they haven't figured out here. Here's
a shocker for you Scott ,they haven't figured out the
compliance stuff for it yet. So while it's coming in late March, it is not enabled by
default coming late March. They are rolling it out, but it is going to be disabled in
tenants by default and you actually need to go over to your cloud
policy service. So the, what is it? config.office.com. Yes. config.office.com and go
tweak your policies and config.office.com to enable the
Loop app so that when it does come, so you can go enable it now,
like it's in the policy. I already went and enabled it so that
when it does get deployed to your tenant, you will be able to use it and play with
Loop even more because I know that's what you wanted to do. Scott .I really don't know that
I want to, it's .It's just another, it's another one of
those things. I think it's going to be a, it's gonna be a very SharePointy
experience and I often feel the rough edges on SharePointy experiences.
Like I always want them to do more. And I think we talked about this the
other the other day too, but uh, we, we did it a little bit more privately.
We can do it again here. Uh,  Purpose-built tools
are purpose-built for a reason.Like they're very good
at doing that one thing. So if I look at say, component
or a piece of SharePoint, like lists, lists is like, okay, but it carries just all this overhead
and baggage of being ultimately just a SharePoint list, right?
It's not really a Microsoft list, it's a SharePoint list and
Carries, that's a SharePoint list, all the constraints that come
with that. So rebranding aside, like it's got a lot of cruft and it's
got a lot of overhead and it's got some weirdness to it because it
was designed to live in SharePoint. I fundamentally believe
that, right? Like there, there's constraints in the underlying
platform that drive to, you know, how these things come out and,
and are manifested for end users. So if I think about like Microsoft
lists and then Uhhuh ,maybe you go use Airtable, sorry, air tables a hundred million times
better like . It, it is,but it's purpose built. Do I get the document integration and
Power Automate and all those things? Like absolutely not. Like I
don't get that whole ecosystem, but if I don't need that ecosystem, like a purpose-built tool might actually
work a little bit better for me. And the reason this is kind of coming
to mind for me is that lots of people compare Loop and especially kind
of the standalone loop, like, hey, let's go to loop.microsoft.com
as a notion replacement and notion is for all its flexibility, a very purpose built tool. Like it does have a line where it
stops trying to be the everything for everyone kind of tool and it
knows its limitations and it just, it wears those words right out there. Like you can find it in the documentation
and you just know you go like, oh, this isn't gonna work. Versus something in SharePoint
land and Microsoft 365 Land, quite often the answer is, well like that could work if you did
this and this and maybe it'll work if you did this and what if you integrated this
thing over here and you did this and you're like, I I I don't want to do that. I just kind of like want to
to work and I want to do work, so enable me to do some work. Please. Yeah, and I think I totally agree. Like I think Loop could
have been or could be, it'll be interesting to see when it
comes out and we continue to play with it more. But in your, to your point like was SharePoint
and OneDrive fundamentally the right place to store all of these files that are going to be your loop
components, your loop pages, all of that. Ultimately those are gonna live
in SharePoint. Just like you said, Microsoft lists are SharePoint
lists, OneDrive document libraries, they are SharePoint document libraries. And there are absolutely
fundamental things that, to be fair, technical deck carried all the
way through from the early days of SharePoint. For those of you
that have dealt with lists, maybe you haven't dealt with
SharePoint lists and specifically, I still run into this all the time, is the whole 5,000 items in a
query and in a list is like, I don't know if it was 2003, 2007, but fundamentally it's because all of
this stuff lived in a sequel database. When you would go to query more than
5,000 items from the sequel database and would put locks on the database, that would cause the entire platform
to run slow  carry it forward15 years. And we're still dealing with
it because of that technical debt. And when you do things like Loop and
SharePoint lists and you try to treat a SharePoint list like a database, you
inherently run into these things. To your point, other places are much
better to build our li large lists because that's what
they were designed for. And when you try to make a SharePoint
list a database or even this like are we trying to make SharePoint
the storage space for Loop when it should be like, oh, living in blob storage or living
in some other backend service that isn't going to introduce
some of the constraints. Now I also get the fact that SharePoint
makes sense because you already have all the identity stuff, the permissioning
stuff, the sharing stuff. There's a lot of stuff they don't have
to build by putting it in SharePoint, but they also do incur that technical
debt and those technical limitations that live in SharePoint really because
of how it was built 20 years ago. Yeah. .It's interesting. Do you feel overwhelmed by trying to
manage your Office 365 environment? Are you facing unexpected issues that
disrupt your company's productivity? Intelligent is here to help much like you
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Microsoft cloud so you can focus on your business. You also experienced a question going
back to using things for what they're built for and challenges
that can come with it. What about if you try to copy stuff
out of SharePoint with AZ copy? I had a question from a colleague come
in and I think it's an interesting scenario. Uh, so first let's
kind of start with the question. I have a colleague that's
working with a customer and that customer is looking to migrate
a couple terabytes of data from SharePoint online
to Azure blob storage. Like they clearly wanna pull
some of those files, documents, whatever they happen to be out of
SharePoint and push them over to Blob in and of itself. Like, okay, fine. There were some things that didn't
even cross my mind  in thisconversation when I was chatting
with a person. So the initial ask, like just to the number that they
asked for was higher than this. Well, like let's peg a number
to it, right? Like, so I wanna migrate a
hundred terabytes of data, which means I have a tendency with
approximately 10,000 users give or take to get like the requisite
licensing, right? It would be someplace in that
order of magnitude, right? You, you're more than five licensed
territory or, or you've bought a, a whole big chunk of
storage from Microsoft, but they wanna migrate a a hundred
terabytes of data from SharePoint online to Azure Blob and they're
already trying to do it. And the, and the way they're trying to do
it is using a storage explorer, which I have to imagine, like,
I didn't even ask the question, but I have to imagine what they're doing
is either using synced libraries that are already synced through OneDrive
for business or they're using the, like the file explorer
view and kind of the mm, the, the wonkiness that comes
along with like that, that weird web a not web d a thing
that they have going on these days. That thing that should have never
been in SharePoint to begin with. Never should have been around to start. I I guess a couple of
things here. So one is, uh, storage Explorer as a
tool uses AZ copy under the hood for its
underlying copy operations. So you can think about like
dragging and dropping a file from say, your desktop into a storage explorer
window that's mapped to a storage account in Azure as an operation where
Storage Explorer is acting as a nice wrapper and a nice proxy and
it's gonna build out and it's gonna say, Ooh, I had a file dropped in here, so I need to call AZ
copy CP with this source, this destination and push
all those things through. And if you actually look in the,
the logs for Storage Explorer, you can see that it's calling the
commands for AZ copy in the background for those kind of core copy operation things,
right? The the puts and the GIS and, and all that kind of stuff. So. Just quick question, is there any performance loss by using
storage copy versus just AZ copy in the command line? Or is it really gonna be about the
same where Storage Explorer doing that type of stuff as just a friendly
cover on top of AZ copy, kinda like the Azure portal is a
friendly cover on top of rest calls? Depends on the operations you're
doing. Like there's, okay, there are things that Storage Explorer
does that are not functionality that's provided by AZ copy really we're talking
about like the underlying data movement engine of storage Explorer. Is just AZ copy is. AZ copy and a standalone,
uh, thing for it. So there might be instances where
Storage Explorer is great for you, like you need a gooey,
you need to browse it, you wanna do something like calculate
folder statistics, anything like that. Like awesome, go ahead. You
wanna view apples on like ADLs, gen two storage account ton of file or
folder like great use storage explorer for that. Like that's native
functionality to it. And then, you know, you wanna copy data, use AZ copy if
you have a large data copy to do, you might not want to use Storage Explorer
as an extraction layer because it's just adding more overhead
at that point, right? It's, it's an orchestrator for you, but ultimately it's orchestrating
a single instance of AZ copy. So if you're trying to do, you
know, a large copy operation, and I'm gonna define large in like
the hundred million plus file range, like say you're trying to copy half a
billion objects, 500 million of those, you might wanna orchestrate that with
like multiple running versions of AZ copy or even AZ copy running for multiple
machines or things like that. So Storage Explorer may or may not cut
it for you in that scenario, you know, as, as as kind of an orchestration or
or or proxy thing that's sitting on top of, on top of easy copy.
Got it. So back to our scenario. We've got a a hundred terabytes
of data in SharePoint online, not very clear where it sits.
Does it sit in, you know, a, a set of libraries in a single site?
Is it multi-site, like whatever, I don't know that it
matters, uh, a whole ton, but just from off the cuff from like
the question I got, it's like, ooh, it sounds like they're maybe trying
to do something unnatural here. So I was just trying to think through
like what are their options And back to the, I don't always think about scale
thing. I think the way you might, I saw a number that ended in TB
and I was like, oh, it's terabytes. This is easy, right? Like
you can totally use AZ copy, you can use AZ copy to do multi
petabyte migrations. So like, we're good there we're golden.
So my first thought was like, let's just sync it back
to OneDrive for business. Like pull the data down locally in a
client and then go ahead and continue to use Storage Explorer or just point AZ
copy at that folder where OneDrive has synced locally and you know, don't do it on like OneDrive on like
your client on your laptop while you're sitting on the beach. Spin up a VM in Azure that's
in Microsoft's wan where
it's gonna be able to do a semi performance synchronization
through OneDrive for business. And then certainly like run easy copy
from that op uh, from that VM as well. So you're all on the same backbone and, and everything's gonna kind
of go a as quick as it can. And you quickly pointed out to
me that there's some  uh,some potential limitations just around
OneDrive for business, whereas I'm like, I don't know, it's just a couple
terabytes of data. Who cares? So. This was a really fascinating question. If there's a customer out there that's
trying to do this and they want somebody to help them call me, cause I
would love to do work through this, but this is not, again, from your perspective blob
storage insignificant from
a SharePoint perspective. So here's where my head instantly
goes is continuing with our a hundred terabyte example, a hundred
terabytes is one and a half. I just did the quick math
104 million megabytes SharePoint. Naturally, it's probably a lot of office
files would be my assumption. I don't know for sure you'd
have to go do some looking, but let's say your average
file size is one meg, maybe even two megs PowerPoints. Excel could be bigger Word
documents could be smaller. You're looking at like 52 million
files where my head instantly went when you said sync it with OneDrive. Is OneDrive in the TSH or in the service
description document limitations. And I've seen this, uh, play
for optimum performance. Microsoft recommends storing
no more than 300,000 files in a single OneDrive team or library
site that you're going to sync. And if you are going to use sync, the same performance issue can be seen. If you have more than 3000, 300,000 items across all libraries, you are syncing even if the
libraries themselves are smaller. So if you're talking 52.5
million files and you can never sync more than 300,000 items, assuming 300,000 items are
evenly dispersed across
all your document libraries and sites and they're not all in one, it's a lot of syncing and unsyncing to get that amount of files onto a local
computer where you could even begin to use something like AZ copy to copy them
up. I mean maybe you go stand up, what, 300,052 million divided by 300,000. You're doing it 175 times. No,
maybe you're a large enough company. Again, a hundred terabytes, you're looking at probably
10,000 ish licenses, 175 people to do this. If you can get
a bunch of people working together, maybe not the end of the world, but now you're trying to coordinate
who's thinking what, who's copying what, not missing anything. This is not
an insignificant amount of work. Fair enough. So one of my other thoughts and I and I
tend to go to this back from like my old migration days cuz I was used to
always going from say like an on-prem SMB file share to SharePoint. You really didn't come back
the other way too much, right? But you definitely had this
machination, you went up where you, you went a certain direction and I think
Microsoft has built out tooling over time like the SharePoint
migration tool, uh, thing, things like that that can help you
out. So my other thought was like, well hey let's go to our old friends at
an ISV or like a migration vendor like sharegate and just point sharegate at
that thing cuz it's got a script ability engine, it has PowerShell support,
all those kinds of things. Mm-hmm .So let's say it wouldn't matter a
hundred terabytes of data if it was one terabyte per SharePoint site. That's only a hundred sites
of data you have to pull down, script it all out in something
like a sharegate and let SHAREGATE just run again. Let it
do its thing. So again, let's spin up a VM in Azure that's in
the region probably with my storage account and just install
sharegate on it, right? Point it at it and let it crank,
let it download everything. Once it's all downloaded, then I'm just gonna push it up the
other way with AZ copy and let it go. How viable is that? That's probably where I would go first. Although I was just looking so
I couldn't remember. Cuz again, I've always gone the other way with you.
Go get a share gate, go get a AvePoint, go get Metal Logics, which
is now Quest I believe, which is actually now Dell, right?
Dell owns Quest owns Metal Logics.It just keeps going. Yeah. So. Sharegate itself, I'd have to go look
at Questa Metal Logics, sharegate, I head handy. Sharegate does not support
a local file system as a Target. It supports it as a source. So you can go to your point
from local drives up to SharePoint, but you can't go back down. If you're gonna go to a Target,
it's SharePoint on prem online. One of the other third
parties may do it Mover, which is now Microsoft
Migration Manager maybe used to support it. They were pretty flexible. Though. I know. Uh, SPMT only goes one
way. It's it's on-prem up kind of thing. Mover. Is too, cuz they've started pulling
functionality out of the old mover. Do IO when moving it
into Migration Manager, which migration manager is different
than the SharePoint migration tool. Yes.  for those who are listening
in audio, like Ben's a big,my head just. Mind. Exploded, mind blown emoji
right there. Yeah. I'm. Legitimately trying to
think how would I do this? Like there's Logic Apps and Power
Automate that let you Connect. That's. The next place I went to. I said, hey, if it's ongoing or even
point in time migration, I don't know that it
necessarily matters. Logic Apps, power Automate and Azure
Data Factory have connectors. Or at the very least I can just do an
HDP call and make everything work through the HDP connector and get
it to where it needs to be. You might have some scaling issues
in there given number of calls, number of API calls, things like that
that you have to consider along the way. But it should be doable. Should be maybe. So I tried
to do this in essence, I have a client that we're
doing, we're not doing this, I was going to SharePoint from
SharePoint, right or wrong, as this may sound. Their process and the way
they did their work was they had certain projects, these were
large projects, think like large, relatively speaking, not large compared to what you're used
to storing large projects of a folder in SharePoint that would contain four
or five, six gigabytes of data, uh, thousands of files. So much smaller than millions
of files in terabytes of data. And their workflow was, once this
project reached a certain point, it moved from one SharePoint site to
another SharePoint site and then it had another status and moved again. And then eventually the part project
got archived off and it moved again. So we did, I tried to do this with Flow originally
where it was doing somethingsimilar to that where they could
go flag a project, flag a folder, update metadata, whatever it may be to get flow to
actually do the move in the copy. It didn't work. The data was too big. Ultimately what we ended up
doing is I have a hybrid runbook in Power Automate that actually uses
sharegate on a server sitting in Azure. So they trigger a Flow logic app. The Flow Logic app runs, runs a hybrid worker in Azure Automation
runs the PowerShell on the local server to use sharegate to move the data
from one site to another site because flow and logic apps
couldn't natively handle it, nor it could even just running
PowerShell in Azure automation. I think it's really the
SharePoint endpoints, it's those APIs you start handling
hitting throttling limits. That same article that talks about, and I completely lost it on all my
browser windows when it talks about the limitations of moving, let's see
if I can go pull it up here. Uh, moving and copying files across
sites. So copy move operations. A single operation has three requirements. No more than a hundred
gigabytes of total file size. No more than 30,000 files in each
file must be less than 15 gigs. Now maybe maybe moving and copying
down locally or using Azure Data Factory or something
like that could work around it. But you're, I think you're still gonna start hitting
thresholds and constraints with some of that stuff. That's probably your best bet. The other thought that is kind
of in the back of my mind, but again it's still using rest calls
and API endpoint that can get throttled would be just to use PowerShell to
download the files at a SharePoint. Just write a huge PowerShell script or
write one that you can point at a site and just go aside at a time,
run the PowerShell script, download 'em all locally and then
use AZ copy to move 'em up. Yeah. I, so, so that was another thought
that I had was you could be slightly transactional in nature about this. So AZ copy has things
like command line, pr, uh, parameters where you can point
it at a say like a folder of files that are sitting locally for you. But ultimately what it has to do
is enumerate those and every upload operation is gonna be kind of a, a
separate call and a separate API call. So if you're processing a objects
to a certain degree in a linear fashion, you know, you're
processing them, you know, in a, in that way versus a highly concurrent
model where maybe you're gonna process like 10 million at once kind of thing. Like that might be hard for you to
pull off something like Casey copy. It would be a long running operation. But depending on where the
files are hosted in SharePoint, like let's say it is a hundred sites, go into something like Azure Automation
and create a runbook in Azure automation where you don't
even have to use AZ copy. You could actually use something like
just the Azure CLI or Azure PowerShell to do this as well. Like if you want to be
PowerShell driven, like you said, hey, let's go ahead and download through
PowerShell using the SharePoint APIs, whether you're doing that with PMP or
just native kind of SPO commandlets and then just call an upload operation on the
other side and script it out that way, right? Like call this site, get everything
in it, download one, upload one, download one, upload one,
and then concurrency. You'd have to figure out how
to kind of spread that out. Like how do you get peanut butter all
over the place so that you can get the scale and throughput that you want. Like
it is kind of an interesting problem. I, I kind of thought about it as easy
in my head again, I started with, it's got tb so it, so it's easy in
it, right? Like earlier today the, the very first customer conversation that
I was working with a customer on was a uh, six petabyte data lake .
So I saw 200 terabytes. I was like,you're my easiest problem today, right?
Like yeah, you got nothing going on. . Yeah. See and so you
mentioned Azure automation.We may have done a podcast
on this a long time ago. You would something this big, you would have to run it in VMs if
you wanted to script it with Azure automation, it would have to be hybrid worker or you'd
have to run it just natively a VM and Azure because Azure automation, you would start hitting the fair use
limits where if you start consuming too much memory, too much CPU or
your script runs for too long, they essentially boot you
out of the queue and restart your job length of time. I've had it happen to me as quick as
30 minutes I've gotten away running something as long as two
hours. This amount of files, you'd be way beyond two hours. And
because you're dealing with files, I would assume your CPU and memory
consumption in whatever's doing the processing and the backend, they boot
you out way sooner than two hours. So I don't think you could even do this
with Azure Automation successfully, uh, without doing a hybrid worker, without
running it natively on a server. So, gotcha. So at that point you just
orchestrated on a server anyway, it's just a power sell script,
right? Run it, do the Rone thing, write it and then set it, forget it and let it run and
do its thing in the background. I think that's what I would do. I think
my approach would be scripted out, run it on a server. If you wanna
run it in parallel to your point, if you have a hundred sites and you are
okay spinning up a hundred servers in Azure, just spin up a bunch of
servers, dedicate a server to it, it might help with some of the throttling. I don't know what they watch from the
SharePoint side in terms of throttling when you're hitting the api, if you're
coming from a hundred different servers, maybe you don't get throttled as quick
cause you're coming from a bunch of different IP addresses. Maybe they recognize that it's coming
from the same tenant and going to the same blob storage and they're
gonna start throttling you. But I think PowerShell on a server to
download it then AZ copy to upload it is probably your best bet. All right. Well I, I mean if anybody else has
any good ideas, uh, , let,let us know. This is almost where I want like the bulk
export tool from SharePoint. You know, like kind of like we have like Azure
import export where I can just send them a disc or have them send me a disc. I almost want you to just be able
to send me a disc of my stuff, just do a dump and, and send it out
the other side, put it in the mail. And if it gets to me in two weeks, do. They have that? I don't know. I don't, I don't think, I don't think for SharePoint
such a thing exists. There's bulk import in the form
of these tools, right? Like, like SPMT and mover.io and some
of the other things you mentioned, but I don't think there's
a bulk export tool. Like, not even on the compliance side, right? There's nothing that I can say
to go in and gimme all my files. I do believe I was, I was doing
some quick Googling on the side, like I did find, like there's CIS tools
makes a document downloader. So maybe there's somebody else
out there that makes, you know, something similar if that wasn't your jam. But it does look like there are a couple, at least a few kind of paid tools
out there that would let you do it. So yeah, I, I don't know. I thought it
was an interesting question though. Yeah. Absolutely. As, and I would be curious if anybody
else has any other insight into it. Because one, I've, to your point, I've
never gotten this question before about, I have all this data, but I
guess it kind of makes sense, like if you're looking to archive stuff, we had some episodes too where you talked
about SharePoint as a files server. It's an expensive place to store a
bunch of files if you're just storing them there and never touching them again. Like I can see where this
could become a request. As companies create lots of
data and they have older files, they don't delete 'em, they
wanna archive 'em somewhere. It is way cheaper to store
200, a hundred, 300 whatever, hundreds of terabytes and blob
storage than it is SharePoint. SharePoint you're paying, again,
I figured it out. I did the math. You get 10 gigabytes for every user. So every user license
gives you 10 gigabytes. One terabyte is a hundred user licenses. So you're either paying for a bunch of
licenses if you're going out and buying file storage, it is still 20 cents per month per gigabyte. 20 Cents per month per gigabyte.
Eh, it starts to add up. It starts to add up
compared to blob storage, especially if you can
go into cool or archive. That's fra Is it like
fractions of ascent? Yes. Yeah, .Yeah. SharePoint storage is 20 times
more than archive blob storage. There could be a valid use case for this. Maybe Microsoft should go build a feature
for archive to blob storage out of SharePoint when you get old files. That
would be kind of a cool tool. .I I mean I, I certainly like
the idea of it, right? Like, uh,  pay me money, .
That'd be, that'd be great. Yeah.Huh. Fascinating. All right. I'm curious,
like Scott said, if you have feedback, let us know. Twitter, YouTube
comments on the blog post, associating the podcast,
whatever you want to do. If you're part of the membership, just give us feedback and Discord and we
can share it on a future podcast. But. I was gonna say, if,
if you were a a member, you could come along and
participate as we record real time. You could see our yes, our made for Radio faces while we're
here streaming off into the ether. Yes. Give us live feedback and input on all
of our crazy ideas that we come up with. Indeed. All right. Oh, I
think that's it for me today. I thought we'd get through that one in
15 minutes and here we are onceagain, you know, 35, 40 minutes
into it and still debating. Still debating. We do have a
question we need to get to it. We do have a question in Discord from
one of our members that we have not gotten to that we should
put it on the list, Scott, in the next week or two to answer that
one cuz we can answer it in Discord. I've thought about going
in and typing it up, but I think it's another interesting
one that would be good discussion in a future episode. Next week. First thing, I'm gonna write it down on my Post-It
note of things that I need to make Ben do, uh, we'll discuss. We would do it.
Listener questions from Discord first. All right, sounds like a plan, Scott.
And with that, go enjoy your weekend. Perfect. Thanks Beth. If you enjoyed the podcast, go leave
us a five star rating in iTunes. It helps to get the word out so more
IT pros can learn about Office 365 and Azure. If you have any questions you want us
to address on the show or feedback about the show, feel free to reach out via
our website, Twitter, or Facebook. Thanks again for listening
and have a great day.

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##### Episode 325 - How do I migrate from SharePoint Online to Azure blob storage?

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In Episode 325, Ben and Scott talk through their experiences with Loop as it approaches its impending public preview and then dive into a question about how to approach a migration from SharePoint Online to Azure blob storage.

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## [Episode 308 – Microsoft Purview In-place Data Share for Azure Storage with Priya Shetty](/content/episode308/index.html)

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##### Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast

[Open in new window](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE308.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode308%2F) [Display Menu](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE308.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode308%2F#)

##### Episode 308 – Microsoft Purview In-place Data Share for Azure Storage with Priya Shetty

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In Episode 308, Priya Shetty – Principal Product Manager – Azure Storage – joins Scott to talk all things Microsoft Purview In-place Data Share for Azure Storage. They cover data share use cases and scenarios for Azure Storage, data share feature capabilities, how it fits into Microsoft Purview, and describe the experience and how to deploy your first data share.

New to Microsoft Purview? Check out our previous episodes:

- [Episode 294 – Microsoft Purview with Erica Toelle](/content/episode294/index.html)
- [Episode 295 – The artist formerly known as Azure Purview](/content/episode295/index.html)
- [Episode 296 – Microsoft Purview data loss prevention](/content/episode296/index.html)

**Like what you hear and want to support the show? Check out our [membership options](/content/membership/index.html).** [(more…)](/content/episode308/#more-107163/index.html)

## [Episode 288 – OneDrive Sync Reports and M365 PNP Assessments](/content/episode288/index.html)

by [Scott](/content/author/scottmsclouditpro/ "Posts by Scott"/index.html) \| Jun 30, 2022 \| [Podcast](/content/category/podcast/index.html)

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##### Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast

[Open in new window](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE288.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode288%2F) [Display Menu](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE288.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode288%2F#)

##### Episode 288 – OneDrive Sync Reports and M365 PNP Assessments

\|

[Back 15 seconds](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE288.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode288%2F# "Back 15 seconds")[Forward 15 seconds](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE288.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode288%2F# "Forward 15 seconds")[Play Speed](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE288.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode288%2F# "Play Speed")

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In Episode 288, Ben and Scott tour the OneDrive Sync Reports preview, talk about some new assessments available from the PNP project for SharePoint 2013 Workflow discovery and SharePoint Syntex, and then close out with a preview feature in Azure Storage which allows you to provision up to 5,000 storage accounts per region per subscription.

**Like what you hear and want to support the show? Check out our [membership options](/content/membership/index.html).** [(more…)](/content/episode288/#more-106919/index.html)

## [Episode 280 – Azure Storage or SharePoint for my files?](/content/episode280/index.html)

by [Scott](/content/author/scottmsclouditpro/ "Posts by Scott"/index.html) \| May 5, 2022 \| [Podcast](/content/category/podcast/index.html)

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[**Visit Podcast**](/content/site-root.html)

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##### Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast

[Open in new window](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE280.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode280%2F) [Display Menu](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE280.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode280%2F#)

##### Episode 280 – Azure Storage or SharePoint for my files?

\|

[Back 15 seconds](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE280.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode280%2F# "Back 15 seconds")[Forward 15 seconds](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE280.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode280%2F# "Forward 15 seconds")[Play Speed](https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdts.podtrac.com%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fmsclouditpropodcast%2FE280.mp3&modern=1&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msclouditpropodcast.com%2Fepisode280%2F# "Play Speed")

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In Episode 280, Ben and Scott talk through how you can think about migrating your files from on-premises to Azure Storage or to SharePoint Online.

**Like what you hear and want to support the show? Check out our [membership options.](/content/membership/index.html)** [(more…)](/content/episode280/#more-106813/index.html)

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